CR spoke with Tim Rosier from Reflex

Emily: What's the reaction been when people have found out what the values are that you stand for?

Tim: On the whole people are clear and happy that we're clear about who we are and what it is we stand for. People generally aren't that bothered about it. They're excited that people who have faith and who are clear about what they're doing are engaging in that. We're increasingly seeing that as long as it works, people aren't too fussed. We're clear that as Christians we're cool to work with the prisoners, the marginalised and the vulnerable in order to help them realise their potential. People are happy that we're motivated to do that.

Emily: Do you find that you'll have faith conversations during the work that you are doing during your different programmes?

Tim: Yeah, it will come up. We don't necessarily go out to start those conversations, but inevitably if you're sitting in a cell wondering how on earth your life has got to this point, you're going to have discussions about hope, about justice, injustice, racism, about all of these life discussions. People will sometimes ask our outreach workers, "Why are you coming in to talk to me about this, what's different about you, why would you give up a well paid career to come and talk to me?" So when asked, we have that opportunity to discuss it. A part of the outreach worker's role is about sign posting, so sometimes if people want to have deeper conversations about faith, our outreach workers will signpost them to the relevant people in the chaplaincy department, for example, to undertake that. So when asked, we'll be honest about it and inevitably those sorts of conversations will come up.

Emily: New data from the Centre for Social Justice, who you actually work in partnership with, have recently said that Young Offenders' Institutes in England are not providing the most basic education requirements and it has found that one in nine state-run Youth Offenders' Institutes are delivering their minimum requirements of 15 hours of education to each teenager per week. What are your thoughts about this?

Tim: The Centre for Social Justice is right. Reflex are part of the Centre for Social Justice Alliance, which is an umbrella organisation for bringing small charities like Reflex together to discuss these sorts of things. I know that CSJ launched a freedom of information request in order to find that and I find that shocking and I am pleased that CSJ has raised this as a discussion for us to have. The statutory requirement is for prisons to provide 15 hours a week, but I do know that the CSJ information request found that actually that's dropped in previous years, in 2011 and 12, to near enough 11 hours a week on average, which is pretty woeful given that the rest of the time young offenders are just shut in their cells with nothing to do. It shocks me, but actually in many ways it doesn't because I have seen first-hand how young offenders who have nothing to do constructive inside for long hours of the day end up just becoming further institutionalised and disengaged. That challenges us and actually that motivates me and Reflex to do something creative about it.

Emily: Is the work that Reflex does included in that 15 hours or is that seen as something separate?

Tim: Generally speaking that's seen as something different, so the 15 hours per week are statutory education providers, so that would be literacy, numeracy and other things. Within a prison there will be an education department and a budget in order to provide that. The sort of thing that Reflex does is generally seen as extra-curricular; it's seen as outreach and youth work and creative programmes. It doesn't form necessarily part of the curriculum. However, that is up for discussion with the recent government proposals.

Emily: Is that something that you'd like to see? Do you want the work that Reflex does to be considered as that?

Tim: Yeah, I mean, what Reflex do and many other organisations like us is engage with young offenders in a creative way. I think the real question is - and the CSJ freedom of information request shows this - that education is failing within YOIs because there's sometimes no budget for it, but also it's very difficult to engage young offenders. For me the question is not whether Reflex would like to see themselves in the prison doing it, it's not about us competing, it's about re-imagining what education looks like within the prison system. I think sometimes you need to recognise that young offenders aren't in a place ready to engage with education, because they have all of these other issues in their life that need to be solved first. They're not going to worry necessarily about getting an English certificate if they're separated from a young child, or they're trying to recover from a drug addiction. They've got all sorts of issues going on the outside in their world; for them that's not necessarily their priority. I think for me, understanding what education is and what it could be is the key to this and Reflex, I think, have a part to play in working with people to do that.

What the riot report also found out, something really shocking, is that 76% of those convicted came from a fatherless home and what that shows me is how powerful and necessary it is to have a secure upbringing and a stable home. Obviously many people will grow up in fatherless homes and the mother does a great job, so we are not saying that it's bad of itself, but statistically you're 20 times more likely to get more involved in crime if you come from a fatherless home. The whole idea of a positive male role model is really key to reducing re-offending and in part that's how the male outreach workers can provide in part, that positive role model when they walk alongside a young person.

Emily: So is the Reflex team made up of mainly men then, or is it both?

Tim: No, it's mixed. We've got both male and female Reflex outreach workers. In fact we even work in some female prisons as well. We work with all ages and all sexes, but the idea of a positive role model, whatever gender that is, is really key I think to provide that role model and that positive influence on a young person's life.

Emily: Something you've mentioned a little was about budget. How much money is being put into prisons by the taxpayers and the government?