CR spoke with Tim Rosier from Reflex

Tim: It's eye-watering actually. I mean it's difficult to break down the actual cost, but by its very nature the secure estate is a very costly thing to run. I do know that recently the Ministry of Justice found out, or published some data, which is really quite shocking. It costs on average about £100,000 per year to keep a young person in prison.

Emily: Per person?

Tim: Per person, per year. Now to break that down, that is an average: within the YOIs (Young Offenders' Institutions) where we work the average cost is about £65,000 a year, but it's still a lot of money. The more intensive establishments like secure children's home can be up to £212,000 a year. The numbers are very small of young people who will be in those intuitions, but averaged out across the different types of prisons across the youth estate the average cost is about £100,000 per year. As a comparison the question is how can it cost that much to work with a young person in prison with the kind of results that come from that - 70% reoffend within a year - when for example it costs just £30,000 a year to send somebody to Eton, which is widely considered to be one of the top schools within the country? The cost is so vastly different and the outcomes are not great and I know that's why the new Justice Secretary Chris Grayling MP is looking at this and wanting to change it.

Emily: You just mentioned that 70% of individuals are going on to re-offend within the 12 months. Are you finding that the young people that you are working with at Reflex are actually re-offending, or have you found that there's been an increase in cases that aren't because of the input that you guys have been giving to them?

Tim: Sure, absolutely, but I do have to precede this by saying it's very hard to recognise if somebody doesn't offend, how you can attribute that to the work you've done, cos there's a whole number of different reasons why people work. What we do see on a soft-outcomes basis is that when people feel better about themselves and their lives are changed they are less likely to go on and offend. It's very difficult to be statistically robust about that, but we did a very small study of the cases that Reflex have re-settled and worked with and re-settled in the local community and of that very small sample we've found that just 16% went on to re-offend as opposed to 70%. We're not comparing necessarily like with like, but that's still statistically significant because people have changed their lives so much through engagement with the Reflex outreach worker.

Emily: So what are Reflex's hopes for the future?

Tim: Our vision is to have a Reflex outreach worker in every prison where there's a child, young person or young adult - that's between the ages of 12 and 24. The reason for that is that we believe that relational youth work, the relational approach, the positive role model that is at the core of how Reflex work is key to doing that. Our dream is to have a presence in every prison. As I say we are in 14 at the moment, we'd love to double or even triple that over the coming years. That's not about building our empire, but that's because we believe that Reflex's approach is significant and useful in breaking the cycle of offending. We'd love to see Reflex go out of business because of our success and the fact that young people aren't in custody. We know that's unlikely to happen because crime is cyclical, but our dream is to see more and more young people break the cycle of offending and make something of their lives and actually give back to the society from which they have come and perhaps damaged.

Emily: That's great, so how can we find out more about Reflex and also the Centre for Social Justice?

Tim: Reflex has a website which is www.reflex.org where you will be able to find out more about what Reflex do. There are videos on there as well. There is even a testimony of a young offender with whom we have worked who has turned his life around. You can get involved with Reflex specifically in a number of different ways; you can pray for us if that's something you're able to do. We're always open for people giving financial gifts; Reflex can't operate on thin air. What we're also interested in is people partnering with us in a number of other ways; you can volunteer with Reflex. Within the Stoke area we work within Werrington Young Offender Institution just on the outside of Stoke and if you wanted to get involved with volunteering either through Reflex or our partners at Prison Fellowship or Caring For Ex-Offenders we'd love to hear from you. You can contact me though the website or on emailing info@reflex.org. In terms of the Centre for Social Justice it would be very interesting to read some of the stuff they've come up with and their website is www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk.