Heather Bellamy spoke with Andy Flannagan, the Christians On The Left Director, about why Britain should do more in the current refugee crisis.

Andy Flannagan

Christians On The Left has highlighted the plight of refugees from the conflict in Syria and Iraq. At the Labour Party annual conference last year it pressed the party to take a stronger line on the issue and held a prayer vigil for those caught up in the fighting and oppression. And the group are now criticising the government's plan to allow 20,000 Syrian refugees into the country over five years saying that it is only a small step and there is more we can all do to help alleviate the crisis. Heather Bellamy spoke with Andy Flannagan, the Christians On The Left Director to hear his thoughts.

Heather: So David Cameron has told parliament that the UK will live up to its moral responsibility and take 20,000 Syrian refugees over the next five years. Is it our moral responsibility?

Andy: Yes I certainly do agree with them there. I would love the numbers to be a lot higher and for it to be happening a lot faster though. I'd love their response to be a bit more genuine as well, rather than having to come off the back of the outcry of public opinion and being left in a situation where you couldn't do anything else. We need a reminder of our Biblical call to provide sanctuary for the stranger and intentionally open our doors. That word "sanctuary" is being lost from the public vocabulary.

The right wing press seem to create stories about refugees and asylum seekers every other day for their front pages in a way that just generates fear. The refugee council of Britain who do not have a political agenda at all, have some great documents and some great information on their website that tells the true story about the extent of asylum seekers in Britain and the truth about how they contribute to Britain, rather than suck the life out of Britain, as you would be led to believe by so much of the press. I think we need a really calm, measured discussion about it rather than the scare stories that we have been subject to for so long.

Heather: You feel that 20,000 is a small step and you want to see the maximum level of refuges taken that's practical. So what is that figure and how do you know that 20,000 isn't it?

Andy: Because there are many more who are in need. The figures for those who are massing, not just on the Syrian border, but the folks knocking on the door of Europe, we are talking about half a million folks.

We are a fairly well off country, the sixth most well off country in the world and what people don't realise is that most of the refugees in the world don't come to well off countries; most refugees are presently being accommodated by the poorest countries in the world. I know Christians who visit Africa and the Far East and are often blown away by the hospitality of believers, who to be honest, according to our mind-set, have practically nothing. And that same thing that happens at the micro level would appear happens at the macro level. Those folks who are perhaps slightly more thankful for the little they do have, are happier to share that with others. It's sad to see that not playing out on an international scale. There is a real opportunity for Britain to lead and for us to stop and think, are we here to, 'protect our way of life'? Or are we here to serve the greater good across the world; to be involved in these inequalities and injustices that people suffer?

Also when we hear the phrase 'moral responsibility', it's impossible not to think about the current state of the Middle East and our culpability in its current fragility. A lot of that dates back to our intervention in the Iraq War. I think we also have to think about our direct culpability in that, in creating some of the instability and chaos that we now see, which means that so many people are having to flee from their homes.

Heather: I just want to pick up on what you were talking about a minute ago, about refugees going to some of the poorest nations and not the richest nations. Do you think there is an issue of our understanding of poverty and not understanding fully what we do have? Because obviously our local councils have got a lot of severe cuts; we have Food Banks feeding thousands of people and not everybody has massive wealth. Do you think we need to get a better grasp of what some people are living in and maybe be willing, not just as Government, but as people, to adjust our lifestyles?

Andy: Absolutely. It would disturb me greatly if it felt like the folks who are suffering most because of poverty and inequality in Britain were the ones who were needing to make the sacrifices on behalf of welcoming our international guests. Yet that's often what happens, because those who are ultimately pulling the levers of power quite often are the folks who are living in the richer areas of the UK and we certainly don't want refugees coming into those places! But generally refugees get sent to places that are urban priority areas and places that are struggling anyway, which is wrong in itself, because "not in my backyard" is the cry from those who are well off and those who are not wanting folks to be changing their way of life.

It's a bit like the recent campaigning that we've been doing on the Sunday Trading Bill. It's all very well for Conservative politicians to say it won't affect people, but that's because if you're well off, you can probably afford to have a Sunday off, whereas if you're struggling on a minimum wage, you're put under a lot of pressure by your company, or your boss, or shop to work on a Sunday and it's much harder to protect that time for your family.

What we're talking about is inequality playing itself out across all the issues. Therefore it is pointing out a great injustice for those who are suffering most in the UK, who also then feel the brunt of our welcome, when actually we have more than enough resources. When you look at the amount of money that's generated in the City of London, the amount of money people are earning, we have more than enough to be able to accommodate people, to be able to share and ensure that people have a basic standard of living.

In response to your question about do we really understand poverty? I think we probably don't. If I'm really honest I don't think I did until I had the privilege of visiting Bangladesh and Uganda and working with NGO's like Tearfund and Christian Aid. I saw what poverty really means, in terms of not having sanitation, clean running water, or any of your family around to support you because they've died of TB or Aids.

Heather: Do you think that Britain should be involved in an EU-wide refugee quota system, or help with refugees already in Europe as well?

Andy: Yes I think we should be helping. Because of the specific nature of the current crisis, I do think we need a specific response, an urgent response, because of the huge and unprecedented numbers that we're talking about at the moment. I think we also need to be part of an ongoing discussion about how we share out refugees and asylum cases.

It's really important people understand the difference between refugees and asylum seekers. There's been a very clever shift in the words used, especially by newspapers like The Daily Mail and The Daily Express. I think that's one of the reasons that people's sympathies have turned to the present swathe of refugees. If you talk about someone being an asylum seeker, then people think that they're coming to get something from you, whereas a refugee is obviously fleeing from something.

We do need to talk about refugees more. We need to acknowledge that people are fleeing from some horrendous things. Yes there are exceptions to the rule and sometimes people are coming as loose economic migrants, but most of the people are fleeing from some horrendous stuff that you wouldn't wish on anyone. So we do need to welcome people and care for people who are fleeing.

If you want to find out more information and how you can practically help, then I would encourage people to check out www.christiansontheleft.org.uk.