Emily Graves spoke with Rachel Hickson about women in leadership

Rachel Hickson

Rachel Hickson is founder of Heartcry for Change, a movement that serves the church in the areas of women, leadership, the prophetic, prayer and business and finance. She is also the author of a number of books and has recently released Release My Frozen Assets, which takes a look at the role of women in the church. Emily Graves spent time chatting with her about women in leadership, women bishops, her own experiences and why she has written the book.

Emily: Please could you tell us about yourself and the work you're involved with?

Rachel: Yes. I founded an organisation called Heartcry for Change 20 years ago and we are a prophetic voice for the compassionate heart and love to touch the nations. We work in India amongst those affected by leprosy; then in the streets of our own nation just touching those that go through tough times and putting in that sense of hope so they can lift their heads up and know that Jesus is with them

Emily: How has your work with Heartcry helped you write this book?

Rachel: Well, I went to church before I was born and grew up in church. I'm a missionary kid; a preacher's kid. I grew up in a church environment that didn't fully endorse women in any sort of leadership role. I always felt a bit guilty that I wanted to do something and make a difference and make a change and thought I must be rebellious.

Emily: Some people who don't go to church might wonder why women can't be leaders in the church. What is the background of that?

Rachel: Some theologians and different people have looked at some of the Bible verses that say a woman should be silent for example and have interpreted them culturally from our Victorian background in the UK. Also, some cultures have felt that women were less than men, so they believed that their role should be less influential than a man's role and they shouldn't lead as that would demean men. There has also conversely been a lot of different understandings that have influenced women to create the feminist movement where women are almost better than men, rather than working alongside each other. There's been a lot of gender war and so unfortunately that affected the church too.

Emily: Did this gender war encourage you to write the book?

Rachel: No, it made me terrified because I didn't want to be in the firing line. I'm 52 now; I've got a daughter; I've got grand kids and I live in Oxford so work with a lot of students and I just began to think, grow up Rachel, take some courage and look at it and see what is being preached; what you perceive is the truth and go back to the original text. I wanted to look at the Bible for myself and find out what I believed rather than just absorbing what other people say.

Emily: How did you find writing the book with someone else? You wrote it with Helen Azer didn't you?

Rachel: Helen's an Oxford graduate; she's younger; she isn't yet married, but has a strong call to missions, to ministry and to helping people find Jesus. As a single girl on a spiritual mission sometimes it's even more difficult, because people say, well if you're not married, then maybe you haven't got a role. I've watched some of the gifting and the incredible ability on Helen and as I began to talk to her I realised that she had a vey good world view too on who she was in God; on who she was as a leader and what she was being called to do. I'm older, married and have been in the ministry for a long time, so we felt that combination was good for us.

Emily: Did you find anything that really surprised you when you were writing the book together?

Rachel: I think for me a lot is said about headship and a lot of this church perspective is that the woman is 'too powerful'; that over powerful women demean the headship of a man. In the Bible it uses this expression headship, but the interpretation certainly I've understood through church was much more headship like the head of the army, or head of the church. I thought 'head of' meant a positional headship, but as Helen really went to the foundations of the Greek, that word headship is not about your positional place, it's about your resource place; so when it says that Jesus is the head of the church, he's not wanting to dominate the church, saying, 'don't make me insecure by pushing me off my pedestal'; that's never the heart of Jesus. The headship in the Bible is a word kephale, which means the resource, or the source. It's much more like the head of the river, like the River Exe or River Thames. Jesus is the resource and the source for the church. When you're married, it says the husband is the head of his wife. That's not a dominating positional place; that means that in that marriage the husband should be a resource and a source towards his wife. I've been married for 33 years to Gordon and certainly he's been that to me. He has been the one who comes alongside and says go on Rachel just do it. When people are a bit mean, Gordon just stands and says, I believe in you; I believe you can make it and so they resource you with finance and encouragements.

Emily: Do you think that in society as the years have gone by, that there has been more room for women to be who they are and to step into leadership?