Heather Bellamy spoke with the Marriage Foundation's Research Director, Harry Benson.

Harry Benson

In July the hackers of the adultery site Ashley Madison threatened to release all customer records unless the website ceased. Early this year the same company announced they were listing in Europe, because of the laissez-faire attitude to infidelity. To talk through the consequences of these sites and impact of recent events, Heather Bellamy spoke with the Marriage Foundation's Research Director, Harry Benson.

Heather: Some of these adultery websites have taglines like: 'life is short, have an affair', or, 'making it easy to have an affair'. It might be easy to have an affair, but the fallout from them is never easy is it?

Harry: No, that's right. It all sounds so sweet and innocent, even calling it an affair, but of course what you're doing when you're having an affair, is you're putting your own needs and priorities way ahead of the needs and priorities of your family. You're breaking your marriage bond, or, even with unmarried couples, you're breaking any bond that you have made between the two of you and you are putting your whole family at risk. There are much better ways of dealing with a difficult situation, than going off and potentially sleeping with somebody else and committing adultery.

Heather: Apparently as many as 1.2 million Britons have signed up to this Ashley Madison website. Do you think adultery is becoming more common? Is it the norm now?

Harry: No, it's not a norm. They say they have got 1.2 million subscribers and who knows if these people are married, unmarried, single, or whatever. I have not got the faintest idea, but no, there is no particular evidence that adultery is becoming more common. However, having said that, what these websites are doing, and there's a handful of them around now, is they're making adultery very much easier than it ever has been in the past. Before, if you were unhappy in your marriage, you would need to meet somebody face to face who wanted to have a fling of some kind, or commit adultery essentially, so you would have to bump in to somebody and find two willing people. Now you have to sign up and the availability has dramatically increased, so it won't be at all surprising if we see an increase in adultery, it's just not obvious yet.

Heather: In terms of their opinion that Europe has a laissez-faire attitude to infidelity, would you agree with that?

Harry: I find that highly unlikely. The British Social Attitude Survey for example, asks people what they think about marriage and whether you should be married before you have a baby. People are pretty relaxed about that; wrongly in my opinion, but that's one thing. But they're not relaxed about people having an affair. Over 80% of people in the most recent survey, and I forget whether that's two or three years ago, but it's recent, but over 80% of people say that affairs are wrong and adultery is wrong. So I just don't buy that at all.

Heather: Apparently a cyber-intelligence company has said that it's likely that the hack was motivated by a desire to extort individuals. Should we all be more concerned about how safe we are on the internet and how safe our details are, whatever type of sites we're using?

Harry: I think that's a reasonable claim, but I tend to put all my financial details on sites that I trust. Adultery websites by definition are dealing in mistrust and deceit and dishonesty and therefore I would have no faith in them anyway. I guess this is the situation for which the word 'Shade and Freud' must have been invented, so I'm sure there will be more than a few people that have a wry smile at the misfortune of others, whose dirty deeds are going to be found out.

Heather: Do you think it could ever be in the public interest for the information about who uses these sites to be leaked?

Harry: I think that the only thing that is in the public interest is if fewer people use these sites as a result. There is no doubt that making adultery much more easy and readily available, means that when people do go through bad patches, then they're more likely to have an affair. And every single marriage goes through a bad patch. My own went through a shocking patch actually, when about 20 years ago we only had young children. Since then there have been our ups and downs, but we just don't go around using these websites. If fear of being found out stops people from using these websites, then the fact is that's a good thing. They trade on people's temporary unhappiness and you then commit an affair, which you might not otherwise have done and you're turning that temporary unhappiness into permanent misfortune. I have very little sympathy for them and I hope this hack, whatever the right and wrongs of the hack are, I hope this hack will cause fewer people to use these awful websites.

Heather: There could be millions of spouses, children and wider family who have an issue with websites like this, because their lives have been destroyed by them. So should they have a voice? How can their voice be heard by these companies? Would you want them to be writing to them so the companies are aware of the fallout?

Harry: I think these companies are wholly disinterested in the fallout of affairs. 'Life is short, have an affair', tells you all you need to know. These people are purely interested in making money at the expense of other people's misfortune and turning that temporary unhappiness into permanent misery. So I can't imagine that some very upset wife or husband ringing them up, or writing a letter to complain, is going to have much sway with them. They're only interested in their own greed and they've got no redeeming qualities whatsoever for these things, they're truly awful.

Heather: And what about the people who have used these sites and are now concerned that their identity might be revealed? Would you advise them to come clean with their spouse? Or, even if they're not worried and they just feel guilty for what they have done, what would your advice be on how to proceed?

Harry: I don't know really. I think it depends on individual circumstances. I'm afraid it's one of those things that if you want to sort out a marriage, then don't go off and have an affair. It's the worst possible way to do it. It's spectacularly selfish as it's only looking at your own needs. I think probably it is possible that some relationships might possibly be better off by not revealing it, but frankly just don't go and have an affair. It's the worst possible way to try and resolve the problem, as you're only looking after yourself and when you do get found out, very few people manage to make their marriages work. I have never heard of a single example of somebody having found that their marriage is stronger because of the affair and had they not had it, then things would have been much worse. Don't have the affair in the first place, it's as simple as that.