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radioThese are reader comments for the article 'More Hillsong Criticism'
Reader Comments
Posted by tony in london @ 23:26 on Aug 2 2007
I'm afraid the above comments make no scriptural or logical sense. Where are we commanded to throw out the gospel in order to reach the "unchurched"??? (What on earth does that mean? They're not unchurched, they're lost!!) No the very opposite; Paul told Timothy to preach the Word......etc. What Jesus are you introducing people to if you are not teaching Him. Honestly it's nonsense.. What you have is a performance directed towards bringing about an emotional response.......But what is the emotion? Is it a contrite heart? Is it a gratitude that Jesus has taken upon Himslelf the wrath of God that we deserved? How can it be when these things are never mentioned?
Can I suggest people do a brief investigation into the hereseys proclaimed by the very people Hillsong are promoting and applauding from their stage....EG Next week Marilyn Hickey......Really, let's stop calling this a Biblical church because the name of Jesus is mentioned.
Of course those speaking out against Hillsong et al are not opposed to unbelievers coming to Christ, that is idiotic. No, the concern should be what people are coming to? What are they believing in? I think1 John is a good place to start evaluating matters; is Hillsong really seperate from the world. Is there anything that one would hear from their stages an "offence to those that are perishing"? If not I suggest somethings drastically wrong.
I'm afraid the above comments make no scriptural or logical sense. Where are we commanded to throw out the gospel in order to reach the "unchurched"??? (What on earth does that mean? They're not unchurched, they're lost!!) No the very opposite; Paul told Timothy to preach the Word......etc. What Jesus are you introducing people to if you are not teaching Him. Honestly it's nonsense.. What you have is a performance directed towards bringing about an emotional response.......But what is the emotion? Is it a contrite heart? Is it a gratitude that Jesus has taken upon Himslelf the wrath of God that we deserved? How can it be when these things are never mentioned?
Can I suggest people do a brief investigation into the hereseys proclaimed by the very people Hillsong are promoting and applauding from their stage....EG Next week Marilyn Hickey......Really, let's stop calling this a Biblical church because the name of Jesus is mentioned.
Of course those speaking out against Hillsong et al are not opposed to unbelievers coming to Christ, that is idiotic. No, the concern should be what people are coming to? What are they believing in? I think1 John is a good place to start evaluating matters; is Hillsong really seperate from the world. Is there anything that one would hear from their stages an "offence to those that are perishing"? If not I suggest somethings drastically wrong.
Posted by matt in Australia @ 10:28 on Jul 22 2007
so heres the deal.
tony said: "I was generally referring to normal Sunday services and if the gospel is not taught at these services, when is it! It is also neither taught at the courses nor home groups"
well if he is correct that the gospel IS NOT preaching the gospel, then sure hillsong really need to reconsider what they are doing (1 Peter 4:11)
BUT
hillsong most certainly do preach the gospel. i dont attend hillsong regularly as i live 3 hours away, but at youth orientated events like the big exo day and welcome to summer, they are extremely gospel focssed, after all, what is an alter call without christ?
i am only 15, but this has no effect on the level of my faith and i know that what hillsong are doing god would be proud of. i ask those opposing them, why are you against unbelievers coming to christ? hillsong have created something special, and it really should be encoraged. if they did not prech from gods word then there is an issue, but they do.
the article questions if hillsong is an evangelical church...
essentially evangelising is proclaiming the gospel. the gospel is the good news. are hillsong telling people about the good news of christs death and resurrection? yes. case closed.
i think i have said enough. '
god bless.
Romans 8:38
matty
so heres the deal.
tony said: "I was generally referring to normal Sunday services and if the gospel is not taught at these services, when is it! It is also neither taught at the courses nor home groups"
well if he is correct that the gospel IS NOT preaching the gospel, then sure hillsong really need to reconsider what they are doing (1 Peter 4:11)
BUT
hillsong most certainly do preach the gospel. i dont attend hillsong regularly as i live 3 hours away, but at youth orientated events like the big exo day and welcome to summer, they are extremely gospel focssed, after all, what is an alter call without christ?
i am only 15, but this has no effect on the level of my faith and i know that what hillsong are doing god would be proud of. i ask those opposing them, why are you against unbelievers coming to christ? hillsong have created something special, and it really should be encoraged. if they did not prech from gods word then there is an issue, but they do.
the article questions if hillsong is an evangelical church...
essentially evangelising is proclaiming the gospel. the gospel is the good news. are hillsong telling people about the good news of christs death and resurrection? yes. case closed.
i think i have said enough. '
god bless.
Romans 8:38
matty
Posted by Ian in Australia @ 01:18 on Jun 15 2007
Hillsong is certainly a phenomenon, but I suppose the jury is still out on whether or not it's a strictly Christian phenomenon. It's slick, well marketed, 'hip' and a host of other adjectives, but I do wonder sometimes whether it's particularly true to the gospel message?
Name-it-and-claim-it, health-wealth-and-prosperity, etc; indicators of a faith which is built as much on secular values as biblical ones.
Hillsong is certainly a phenomenon, but I suppose the jury is still out on whether or not it's a strictly Christian phenomenon. It's slick, well marketed, 'hip' and a host of other adjectives, but I do wonder sometimes whether it's particularly true to the gospel message?
Name-it-and-claim-it, health-wealth-and-prosperity, etc; indicators of a faith which is built as much on secular values as biblical ones.
Posted by mark in US @ 15:23 on Apr 30 2007
Hmmm. I'm debating whether this is worth my time or not- probably not- but what the heck. As a long time follower of Hillsong's, and a pastor at an affilated church- I think you should know these conferences and in actuality much of what we do in the public eye is not intended to appease the Christian community as much as attract the unsaved, unchurched and backslidden. If Oprah talk get's their attention, then by-God let's speak the language of the day. (Go read Acts 17:22-34) Paul used the language of the culture to connect with his audience- he didn't use a heavy handed fir and brimstone approach. He did eventually drop the heavy stuff- judgment and such. At our church- which is closely modeled after Hillsong's approach- once a person accepts Christ they are connected to a cell group and directed to take eight-weeks of solid foundational teaching- that include fundamentals such as redemption, the blood, atonement, etc.
Our services and events are not geared to teach theology as much as introduce people to Jesus Christ. Paul didn't break out the scriptures at Mars Hill because the culture was ignorant of them or didn't regard them as relevant. We do preach the Bible every Sunday but it is intentionally practical. People accept Christ in every service and our solid foundations classes stay full. God is adding to our number continually.
I was raised ina Freewil Baptist School who thought they had the corner on the truth at the same time I attended a pentecostal church all through my childhood years- they thought they had the corner on the truth as well. To be honest, we'd better just stick with loving God and loving people- teaching the basics and helping people do life - raise great families and enjoy the favor of God and His church.
As a former investigator, I love to dig up dirt and prove a point- but I have to resist that urge for the sake of using my time and energy to help the hurting and grow the church. I suggest some of you do the same.
Hmmm. I'm debating whether this is worth my time or not- probably not- but what the heck. As a long time follower of Hillsong's, and a pastor at an affilated church- I think you should know these conferences and in actuality much of what we do in the public eye is not intended to appease the Christian community as much as attract the unsaved, unchurched and backslidden. If Oprah talk get's their attention, then by-God let's speak the language of the day. (Go read Acts 17:22-34) Paul used the language of the culture to connect with his audience- he didn't use a heavy handed fir and brimstone approach. He did eventually drop the heavy stuff- judgment and such. At our church- which is closely modeled after Hillsong's approach- once a person accepts Christ they are connected to a cell group and directed to take eight-weeks of solid foundational teaching- that include fundamentals such as redemption, the blood, atonement, etc.
Our services and events are not geared to teach theology as much as introduce people to Jesus Christ. Paul didn't break out the scriptures at Mars Hill because the culture was ignorant of them or didn't regard them as relevant. We do preach the Bible every Sunday but it is intentionally practical. People accept Christ in every service and our solid foundations classes stay full. God is adding to our number continually.
I was raised ina Freewil Baptist School who thought they had the corner on the truth at the same time I attended a pentecostal church all through my childhood years- they thought they had the corner on the truth as well. To be honest, we'd better just stick with loving God and loving people- teaching the basics and helping people do life - raise great families and enjoy the favor of God and His church.
As a former investigator, I love to dig up dirt and prove a point- but I have to resist that urge for the sake of using my time and energy to help the hurting and grow the church. I suggest some of you do the same.
Reply by Steve in United States @ 23:41 on Jun 27 2010
When would a pastor ever think it not a good idea to present any part of Scripture to anyone at any time? Your statement is very telling.
When would a pastor ever think it not a good idea to present any part of Scripture to anyone at any time? Your statement is very telling.
Reply by Melchor in South korea @ 15:28 on May 30 2007
I like mark's comments.Pastor mark im not a born again christian yet.I hope someday i will.i would like to have your email addres pls. i think you can help me.I think your the person whom i can get good advise.You know pastor my christian belief had been been shaken recently.just like a building that was hit by an earthquake it has already cracks.
By the way im a filipino guy here in south korea im working as a factory worker only.Also sorry if my english is not that clear im not good in english.
Hoping for your reply.
I like mark's comments.Pastor mark im not a born again christian yet.I hope someday i will.i would like to have your email addres pls. i think you can help me.I think your the person whom i can get good advise.You know pastor my christian belief had been been shaken recently.just like a building that was hit by an earthquake it has already cracks.
By the way im a filipino guy here in south korea im working as a factory worker only.Also sorry if my english is not that clear im not good in english.
Hoping for your reply.
Posted by Joel in Sydney @ 11:25 on Feb 2 2007
not another Jesus, Tony. just a different way of intruducing a generation to the saviour of the world. The process of the Holy Spirit drawing all mankind to himself doesnt usually take place in a half hour sermon. I think the biblical message of sin, repentance and atonement as you mentioned would be poorly explained at a large scale conference and perhaps wisely they dont try. There is room as you can see for people to be let down but these conferences arent the time or the place.
Jesus took almost three years to educate the apostles.
Apologies for the incomplete thought but I think sometimes these kind of events are misrepresented to be something they were never intended to be.
not another Jesus, Tony. just a different way of intruducing a generation to the saviour of the world. The process of the Holy Spirit drawing all mankind to himself doesnt usually take place in a half hour sermon. I think the biblical message of sin, repentance and atonement as you mentioned would be poorly explained at a large scale conference and perhaps wisely they dont try. There is room as you can see for people to be let down but these conferences arent the time or the place.
Jesus took almost three years to educate the apostles.
Apologies for the incomplete thought but I think sometimes these kind of events are misrepresented to be something they were never intended to be.
Reply by Row in London @ 01:35 on May 4 2009
The problem is with the way Hillsong going...many people will never get that message of sin, repentance and atonement. I was at the church for over a year and there are 2 main books they recommend to know the gospel. Destined to Reign by Joseph Prince and Classic Christianity by Bob George. Both books teach that repentance is simply changing your thinking from unbelief to belief. If you look up the Greek word for repentance...metanoia...you'll see it means turning with a hatred of your sin and a sense of remorse. What's more, the main Bible translation they quote from is The Message...do a search for the word repentance in the message and compare to the NIV or NKJV. A Hillsong pastor who I met with for 2 hours actually explained to me that he does not agree with the definition of metanioa and believes repenatance is just changing your way of thinking without any sense of remorse. Joseph Prince teaches that as Christians we should no longer be conscious of sin (he has a whole chapteron this) and he teaches that a conscience that is veray aware of sin is an "evil conscience". The doctrines of Hillsong are putting the church on a slippery slope and not honering God at all. After a month of dialogue with 2 pastors I left the church. One of the pastors had a very senior role. I know God loves Hillsong but these teachings do not glorify Him. He greatly desires their repentance and I hope everyone will join in praying that they will reject the false gospel that they are currently embracing. To turn to God without remorse of sins for salvation...that makes a mockery of Jesus' death on the cross. I love Jesus so much and this teaching makes me very, very sad.
The problem is with the way Hillsong going...many people will never get that message of sin, repentance and atonement. I was at the church for over a year and there are 2 main books they recommend to know the gospel. Destined to Reign by Joseph Prince and Classic Christianity by Bob George. Both books teach that repentance is simply changing your thinking from unbelief to belief. If you look up the Greek word for repentance...metanoia...you'll see it means turning with a hatred of your sin and a sense of remorse. What's more, the main Bible translation they quote from is The Message...do a search for the word repentance in the message and compare to the NIV or NKJV. A Hillsong pastor who I met with for 2 hours actually explained to me that he does not agree with the definition of metanioa and believes repenatance is just changing your way of thinking without any sense of remorse. Joseph Prince teaches that as Christians we should no longer be conscious of sin (he has a whole chapteron this) and he teaches that a conscience that is veray aware of sin is an "evil conscience". The doctrines of Hillsong are putting the church on a slippery slope and not honering God at all. After a month of dialogue with 2 pastors I left the church. One of the pastors had a very senior role. I know God loves Hillsong but these teachings do not glorify Him. He greatly desires their repentance and I hope everyone will join in praying that they will reject the false gospel that they are currently embracing. To turn to God without remorse of sins for salvation...that makes a mockery of Jesus' death on the cross. I love Jesus so much and this teaching makes me very, very sad.
Reply by tony in london @ 00:04 on Feb 20 2007
So what is the prupose of a large scale conference then and in what way is our saviour presented? What we have in reality is a positive, feel-good presentation, supported by a concert.
Actually, I was generally referring to normal Sunday services and if the gospel is not taught at these services, when is it! It is also neither taught at the courses nor home groups. I have no issue with people wanting to attend self help groups/seminars, but please don't let's be fooled into thinkings they are churches..
Paul preached Jesus Christ and Him crucified, not how to feel better about ourselves.
I mean no offence, but the Christian world surely needs to wake up to the reality that not everone who calls themselves Christians really are and we need to use discernment if we are not to be led astray by false teachers.
Blessings
So what is the prupose of a large scale conference then and in what way is our saviour presented? What we have in reality is a positive, feel-good presentation, supported by a concert.
Actually, I was generally referring to normal Sunday services and if the gospel is not taught at these services, when is it! It is also neither taught at the courses nor home groups. I have no issue with people wanting to attend self help groups/seminars, but please don't let's be fooled into thinkings they are churches..
Paul preached Jesus Christ and Him crucified, not how to feel better about ourselves.
I mean no offence, but the Christian world surely needs to wake up to the reality that not everone who calls themselves Christians really are and we need to use discernment if we are not to be led astray by false teachers.
Blessings
Posted by tony in london @ 12:36 on Jan 28 2007
I attended Hillsong for a few months and can certainly confirm the issues. I will say it is filled with great and well meaning people, however whether they be Christians must be called into doubt by their following what is clearly not a Biblical message. I once heard Gary Clarke say from the stage "If I taught theology from the stage, you'd all be bored". Now doesn't that indicate a problem? THe study of God is boring? How much better to have an exciting rock concert and convince people it's a Christian service!! Mention is made of alter calls..however this is based in my experience on an idea of ....having a relationship with God"....not the Biblical message of sin, repentance and the atoning sacrifise of Jesus". The Briefing offers an honest appraisal of what should be a major concern....the teaching of another Jesus..
I attended Hillsong for a few months and can certainly confirm the issues. I will say it is filled with great and well meaning people, however whether they be Christians must be called into doubt by their following what is clearly not a Biblical message. I once heard Gary Clarke say from the stage "If I taught theology from the stage, you'd all be bored". Now doesn't that indicate a problem? THe study of God is boring? How much better to have an exciting rock concert and convince people it's a Christian service!! Mention is made of alter calls..however this is based in my experience on an idea of ....having a relationship with God"....not the Biblical message of sin, repentance and the atoning sacrifise of Jesus". The Briefing offers an honest appraisal of what should be a major concern....the teaching of another Jesus..
Posted by dan in australia @ 00:40 on Jan 10 2007
the guys at The Briefing have a chip on their shoulder as big as Gibralter about Hillsong and the Charasmatic movement generally. To actually question whether HS is a Christian church is as sad as it is side-splittingly funny. It's a classic focus on the vine while completely ignoring the fruit. Many the guys at The Briefing should spend more time worrying how thier own Anglican Communion is going aspostate at the seams!
the guys at The Briefing have a chip on their shoulder as big as Gibralter about Hillsong and the Charasmatic movement generally. To actually question whether HS is a Christian church is as sad as it is side-splittingly funny. It's a classic focus on the vine while completely ignoring the fruit. Many the guys at The Briefing should spend more time worrying how thier own Anglican Communion is going aspostate at the seams!
Posted by Rebecca in South West @ 18:46 on Jul 12 2006
I question whether a Christian website such as Cross Rhythms should post such negative reviews, there are plenty of other places we can go to read such criticism. There is no doubt in my mind that Hillsongs exists to show the love of God to a desperate worlrd and I think it is doing a great job. I think the person who wrote this needs to look deep inside themself and allow God to soften their heart.
I question whether a Christian website such as Cross Rhythms should post such negative reviews, there are plenty of other places we can go to read such criticism. There is no doubt in my mind that Hillsongs exists to show the love of God to a desperate worlrd and I think it is doing a great job. I think the person who wrote this needs to look deep inside themself and allow God to soften their heart.
Posted by Satara in South Africa @ 15:08 on May 17 2006
Im not a christian and I attended the UK Hillsong Colour with my friend from work. I loved the speakers and their life experiences. Those words beautiful to the core and fashioned for greatness impressed a great desire in me to be an effective part of this life for my family and friends. However there's many people in my world like the one that wrote this criticisim, you dont want to give us or anyone hope for a better world which makes you the idiot that you are. I feel sorry for the people in your own life.
Im not a christian and I attended the UK Hillsong Colour with my friend from work. I loved the speakers and their life experiences. Those words beautiful to the core and fashioned for greatness impressed a great desire in me to be an effective part of this life for my family and friends. However there's many people in my world like the one that wrote this criticisim, you dont want to give us or anyone hope for a better world which makes you the idiot that you are. I feel sorry for the people in your own life.
Reply by Catherine in Lancaster, UK @ 12:09 on Nov 28 2007
"you dont want to give us or anyone hope for a better world"
This world is beautiful, but surely it's broken. The world we all want is not the world we live in, why?
The Bible answers this question by describing how the relationship between God as ruler of the world, and man as his appointed stewards of it, is broken because of man appointing him/herself as ruler instead of God (this is what the Bible calls sin). It describes God's judgement on this rebellion against him having repercussions for our relationships with each other and with our world.
Our beautiful world is damaged. But because of His love God became perfect man, he suffered and died so that His rightful anger against mankind's rebellion can be appeased. Jesus took in himself the punishment we deserve. And in His resurrection, Jesus showed he had defeated death, and had the power to fulfill God's promise of a new and perfect creation where there will be no death, or suffering or ignorance of God.
To trust in Jesus' death and resurrection to save us from our sinful selves, brings the wonderful and certain hope of eternal life in God's perfect kingdom. The Bible also makes clear that to continue in rejection of God (His rulership, and the salvation he offers through faith in Jesus) brings rejection by God from His kingdom and punishment for ignoring him as God.
So, any Christian who believes these truths in the Bible has a marvelous "hope for a better world" to share with everyone. And surely believing that God loves everyone so much that Jesus suffered and died to save us should lead us to living lives that show we truly love and care for all people?!
"you dont want to give us or anyone hope for a better world"
This world is beautiful, but surely it's broken. The world we all want is not the world we live in, why?
The Bible answers this question by describing how the relationship between God as ruler of the world, and man as his appointed stewards of it, is broken because of man appointing him/herself as ruler instead of God (this is what the Bible calls sin). It describes God's judgement on this rebellion against him having repercussions for our relationships with each other and with our world.
Our beautiful world is damaged. But because of His love God became perfect man, he suffered and died so that His rightful anger against mankind's rebellion can be appeased. Jesus took in himself the punishment we deserve. And in His resurrection, Jesus showed he had defeated death, and had the power to fulfill God's promise of a new and perfect creation where there will be no death, or suffering or ignorance of God.
To trust in Jesus' death and resurrection to save us from our sinful selves, brings the wonderful and certain hope of eternal life in God's perfect kingdom. The Bible also makes clear that to continue in rejection of God (His rulership, and the salvation he offers through faith in Jesus) brings rejection by God from His kingdom and punishment for ignoring him as God.
So, any Christian who believes these truths in the Bible has a marvelous "hope for a better world" to share with everyone. And surely believing that God loves everyone so much that Jesus suffered and died to save us should lead us to living lives that show we truly love and care for all people?!
The opinions expressed in the Reader Comments are not necessarily those held by Cross Rhythms.
I visited the Hillsong Church last weekend. It resembles very much a type of pyramid selling retoric. I feel for the poor souls there looking for love. If only they could see that love and God is everywhere and that a Church like Hillsong will only channel their love into a funnel for that church to make money. Money that doesn't much go back into the poor or dissolute in the community. They did have very expensive camera equipment though. The most exepnsive I've ever seen. Its a commerial enterprise and I feel sorry for the lost lambs running toward their lights. If only they spread the message that the answer is within us all. We only need to look there.